The original video interview is available here: Robert Hogan on Management TV: True leadership is not a matter of politicking or charisma.
What do you think will be the issue in 10 or 20 years in the future? Is it ecology or large number of small businesses or small businesses just getting in a short space of time completely overrun by big businesses as we see with Facebook, Google or Apple?
It’s a really, really complicated question and I think my ideas around that are probably not consistent with them. I think companies like Facebook and Google are just entertainment. Sooner or later food is going to matter: at some point agriculture is going to be more important than fucking Facebook. I mean how are you going to eat off of Facebook? You know, sooner or later the fundamentals of the economy are going to come back. These things are just diversions, they’re entertaining, and people spend a lot of money on them but I mean, really, first, what is it? Er ...the Marx line: there is no God, only hunger. Well, sooner or later we’re going be back to hunger, at which point Facebook won’t be very important.
So you think the big question will be how to deal …
… with this relentless increase in population, we’re ruining the Earth. We’re ruining the Earth. Fish come from coral beds; the coral beds are dying. When the coral beds die, there won’t be any fish. Then how are people going to eat fish? It’s ... er ... it’s Thomas Malthus writing in the late 1700s. I’ve always thought he was right. He said human populations will always expand past the carrying point of the food supply – always. So your population will grow, grow, grow and then they’ll crash because they’ve run out of food. Grow, grow, grow and then crash because you’ve run out of food. This population growth is going to kill us. And so that’s, I mean I think that’s the future. What does the future hold? Starvation. And warfare. And Facebook won’t help you.
And what can be done …?
What are you going to do when they come for you? Get on Facebook? You have to go and fight for food. You have to go back to basics. Sorry, that’s not a very happy view but I’m right: population is just going like this; climate is going like this; arable land is going like that.
What can be done with this problem on the organisational level to survive?
I mean there needs to be a value change. People in US organisations are greedy and selfish. As long as people are greedy and selfish, they’re going to do what maximises their profits. That takes care of them and they don’t care about anybody else. You need a little altruism. And I just see that’s going to be hard.
Well it’s the first rule of economics that people always behave in their own interests.
And the fundamental goal of leadership ... for me there’s a moral component to all this. I’m quite serious: there’s a moral component. Leadership is about getting people to work for the common good. That’s where salvation is going to lie and not let the selfish principle overwhelm their business. But what sports teams, effective sports teams play for the common good. That’s the goal of leadership. To get people to behave in a way that’s good for everybody and not just for ... Leadership – one more time: leadership is a resource for the group, not a source of privilege for the incumbents.
But still in the world you see that a small percentage of people, who control most of the global resources. George Soros, the multi-millionaire, once said something that really interested me … Rich people must really consider if they want to be hanging on a tree or they have less money.
He’s a smart guy. I really agree. I think he’s right.
Because it won’t be about losing money. it will be about that they can kill you.
And eat you. If they’re hungry enough.
At a conference where most people are managers and are or were responsible for hiring people and training people, what would your message be for these people? What should they do in order for their organisations to behave more effectively, to hire real leaders, not the politicians? What would be your advice? A simple thing.
The simple thing is: they need to think about the long-term success of the company, not their pay cheques. They need to work for the good of the company, not for their own welfare. And good luck with that!
